Crackdown On "Farang" Teachers in Thailand post arrest of John Karr in the Ramsey case
Just like clockwork, the Thai government responds to the arrest of John Karr in the Ramsey case with typical reactionary flourish by increasing the already ridiculous bureaucracy surrounding work permits and the like for foreigners.
Frankly, I see this as just an excuse for our darling Thai bureau-fuckwits to show some activity and get their names in the paper. What do they do the rest of the year? Absolutely nothing. It's government by crackdown. The new regulations will just make the road to legality even more onerous for law-abiding teachers in Thailand.
As it stands, the impracticalities of work permit registration under the current Thai system are such that most schools refuse to process them until the teacher has been at the school for at least three months, if at all.
Has the Thai government ever thought that most schools employ foreigners under the table because the process to work legally is too long and absurd already? Or that simplifying and expediting the process would actually result in greater compliance?
As for qualifications, this would not have stopped someone like Karr from working in Thailand. His credentials were actually quite impressive, in a creepy way. Furthermore, few teachers with similar resumes would work in Thailand for the low wages and ill-treatment that are norm here.
And as I'm sure Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra with his honorary Ph.d in Criminology from the University of Houston would aver, qualifications do not guarantee non-criminality.
The Thai government is confusing and compounding two totally unrelated areas; sexual abuse and qualifications, into one category. I cannot find any correlation between the two.
Finally, since we're on the subject of qualifications, when will the no-fail policy at Thai schools be revoked? That's right, Thai schools do not allow failing grades to be given in English language class. Failing grades in other classes are also unlikely to stand. Thai students, of course, are well aware of this policy and behave accordingly.
Some comments heard 'round the net:
...
First the knee, then the jerk. Then the response.
Here are some possible scenarios:
1. Create more paperwork and bureaucracy, which makes it harder for foreigners to work legally as teachers. End result as market demand stays the same: more foreigners work illegally as teachers.
2. Create insanely high qualifications for foreigners to work in Thailand. End result: Foreigners without insane qualifications leave the country, suddenly market demand goes through the roof without accompanying salary rises ("We will pay 30K baht a month for a Ph.D in Education!"); more foreigners work illegally.
3. Make a song and dance show to save face, then continue business as usual. End result: Normal number of foreigners working illegally.
...
Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.
[ed. exactly, as usual, the Thai reaction fails to solve the problem while increasing the burden on normal law-abiding citizens]
...
...how will the Thais deal with this situation:
Khun A., an incompetent idiot who happens to be in charge of hiring the farang staff, has put off advertising for one or two teachers until the week just before school starts. Khun A. puts the ad in the paper. Teachers apply. When told they need a background check paper, they check with their embassies and are told it will take (1-2 months, fill in the blank with any reasonable number).
Do you think the Thai schools will:
1) Do the right thing and pay overtime and temporary substitutes (who must also have background checks, remember) until the teacher candidates check out, or
2) Employ them anyway and hope everything works out ok?
Even the process of getting a work permit is already so complicated and so much of a joke that most foreign teachers start out by working illegally- there's actually little choice in the matter.
To imagine that Bangkok could become this rigourous in vetting teacher candidates presumes an entire overhaul of the entire visa and work permit system. Desirable, and not impossible, but extremely improbable.
In fact, the real solution to the problem must lie NOT in putting further restrictions and barriers to people getting real work permits. Most people who have real work permits look pretty good on paper- believe me, it's not easy.
To be honest, I can't blame BCC that much. They were down a teacher (nevermind that it was their own fault the previous one left, apparently) and they had to get someone to fill in. Even in the best circumstances, it takes a month or so usually to get someone legally up to speed. What were they supposed to do? There aren't any work-permitted positions in Bangkok for "temporary school substitute at a moment's notice."
Most of the real problem lies in the foreign teacher population who are working illegally for long stretches of time and completely unregulated (and unprotected). The de facto situation must be addressed realistically: either Thailand must lose a large percentage of its foreign teachers because they don't have minimum qualifications or don't earn the standard set for the permit, or some lower standard must be set and regulated which allows those with fewer academic credentials and earning lower salaries to be regulated and vetted and receive work permits and be legal (and also be protected from the abuse they often experience). However, this takes the power away from the Thai school directors and puts it into the law. I can't see that as something they'd really want to have happen.
...
and while we're at it how about background checks on politicians?
known criminal associations
fraudelent business transactions
evidence of corruption
Lets sweep the country clean of "undesirables"
...
...the fact that every time the prime minister sneezes, there's a new education minister, who has absolute power. It's not like the Japanese system where the bureaucracy maintains stability- everything can go up in the air.
...
Criminals are of every ethnicity in Thailand. In fact the problem of Thai teachers behaving in an unacceptable manner is being covered extensively at the moment in the "Thai Rath" newspaper.
...
One bad apple! Seek references, check references, check authenticity of credentials, plan your recruitment and conduct proper interviews. Maybe accept the fact that better salaries will have to be paid to obtain better people. But would all of this stopped this character? I doubt it.
In this case the chap was qualified, but dangerous.
...
One of the problems here is that every time one foreigner does something bad, there is a round of foreigner bashing by the Thais, and not one Thai actually speaks up to be the voice of reason.
...
But how are foreign teachers in Thailand to be vetted from their country of origin?
To take Britain as an example, there is no way the Criminal
Records Bureau (CRB) would release details of a police record direct to organisations in Thailand. The data on the police records is clearly protected under the Data Protection Act in the UK - and quite rightly so, too.
If you try to obtain it yourself, how would the Thai school know whether the result was not forged? Would they know what a UK police record report looked like?
Even supposing it were possible to obtain a CRB check for a Thai school, who would pay for it (it's about 35 pounds a pop and is only valid for 6 months) and what happens about the delay? When I applied for a CRB check last year via my uni (I was doing a PGCE) I had to wait 2.5 months for the result. If the TES forum is anything to go by, I was pretty lucky - others were waiting 3 or even 4 months.
Would the teacher be allowed to work temporarily before being sacked due to a 'negative' CRB result (this in itself opens a can of worms - who decides if, say, a speeding conviction should disqualify you from school employment) or should he have to wait 3 or 4 months before starting teaching? At that rate there would be no farang teachers for most Thai schools.
...
There hasn't been any suggestion that the guy had a criminal record. He seems to have been caught because he wanted to be caught.
...
Thailand needs teachers to educate the government officials on how not to be stupid, they are children, something I have discovered after living here a while...............they are like children
present some of the senarios that we see govenment take here to a primary school in the west and I really think you will see similar ressults
they just haven't got a clue
...
Background checks wouldn't have kept him from landing the job because he wasn't charged yet. We need to simply accept that sh-t like this happens, and there will never be a way to protect ourselves 100% from coming into contact with bad people.
...
So what would you say if a teacher applied for a job with a B.S. in Education, more than five years of experience teaching, including several years of overseas teaching experience? Those are John Karr's qualifications.
"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.
Right, so here comes the knee jerk and additional mounds of paperwork and of course more budget for the responsible authorities. And in the end, people like Mr. Karr will have impecable qualifications by any standard of assessment. Does Mr. Jakrapob think that psychotic paedophiles are incapable of getting a degree and holding a teaching job back home for a few years? Granted, this might weed out some of the backpackers with BS degrees from the University of Khao San Road, but it cannot be expected to prevent people like Mr. Karr from teaching in Thailand.
...
Do any of you guys realise how farang teachers are viewed by Thais?
I worked as a teacher in Thailand for 10 years until I had enough of the bullshit.
No respect given at all by Thai teachers and parents.
If they want to stop getting the farang scum, they had better change their attitude to the farang teacher, and farang in general.
I only know a couple of guys who still teach here after 10years - it really is a shite 'trade' to be in.
Even at university level, the Thais use the pronioun 'man' for the foreign teacher behind their backs (but Ajarn to their face), while many teachers go around thinking that they are well respected in Thailand.
There is also a big resentment from Thai teachers as the farang get 'mega-wages' like 30,000 a month.
Background checks are a waste of time - it's so easy for a criminal to get a new passport and identity.[ed. post 9/11 I'm not so sure about that. However, it always be possible to teach sub rosa in Thailand, as long as you keep your head down and don't make waves.
...
Speaking of salaries, many Thai teachers earn more baht in a year than the average farang teacher, if you deduct the farang teacher's additional expenses, and add in the value of the Thai teacher's pension and other benefits.
...
It is no easy matter for a foreigner to come to Thailand (with, say, an actual bachelor's degree and a TEFL certificate, but no teaching degree) and get legal. You can't get a teaching license or a work permit until you've worked here for MONTHS. I never got either one in YEARS. And, unlike bona fide foreign workers in most countries, the foreign teacher has an almost constant battle trying to remain legal. In order to learn $8,000, after related expenses, per year.
Frankly, I see this as just an excuse for our darling Thai bureau-fuckwits to show some activity and get their names in the paper. What do they do the rest of the year? Absolutely nothing. It's government by crackdown. The new regulations will just make the road to legality even more onerous for law-abiding teachers in Thailand.
As it stands, the impracticalities of work permit registration under the current Thai system are such that most schools refuse to process them until the teacher has been at the school for at least three months, if at all.
Has the Thai government ever thought that most schools employ foreigners under the table because the process to work legally is too long and absurd already? Or that simplifying and expediting the process would actually result in greater compliance?
As for qualifications, this would not have stopped someone like Karr from working in Thailand. His credentials were actually quite impressive, in a creepy way. Furthermore, few teachers with similar resumes would work in Thailand for the low wages and ill-treatment that are norm here.
And as I'm sure Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra with his honorary Ph.d in Criminology from the University of Houston would aver, qualifications do not guarantee non-criminality.
The Thai government is confusing and compounding two totally unrelated areas; sexual abuse and qualifications, into one category. I cannot find any correlation between the two.
Finally, since we're on the subject of qualifications, when will the no-fail policy at Thai schools be revoked? That's right, Thai schools do not allow failing grades to be given in English language class. Failing grades in other classes are also unlikely to stand. Thai students, of course, are well aware of this policy and behave accordingly.
Crackdown On "Farang" Teachers:
Qualifications of foreign teachers in Thailand must meet 'required standards'
BANGKOK: -- Authorities concerned are believed to soon set a common standard for all local schools in recruiting teachers, including those of foreign origins, following a recent case in which an American teacher was arrested for an alleged murder of a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago.
Deputy Secretary General to the Prime Minister Jakrapob Penkair said here Friday that he would meet secretary of the education minister next week to discuss standardized qualifications of all teachers in Thailand and criteria on teacher recruitments.
"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai. [ed. does that mean that all Thai teachers of English will actually have to be able to speak English? At present, quite a few could not hold a conversation in English if their life depended on it. Luckily, for them, neither their life nor their job does.]
Mr. Surakiart, among other tasks, supervises the Ministry of Education. [ed. he's also the Foreign Minister when not campaigning hard for the position of UN Secretary General, a candidacy seen by many to be a fool's errand and which even the former Thai Ambassador to the US would not support]
"I'll discuss with the education minister's secretary on qualifications of teachers and tutors in Thailand, particularly those who work for international schools, as well as criteria for screening their backgrounds and issuing work permits for them," he told journalists. [ed. why start with the International Schools? They already have the strictest standards. What about starting with the notoriously lax Thai government schools, or would an inquiry into their 'standards' prove too embarrassing?]
Mr. Jakrapob's remarks followed Wednesday's arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of some international schools in Thailand. [ed. he was hired by 1 school, rejected by the others for lacking a B.Ed. or US teacher certification required by international schools. He was allowed to conduct a demonstration class at one private school but parents objected when he required the students to work quietly on assignments in class (i.e., do actual work)]
The middle-aged American was arrested by the Thai Immigration Police Bureau in a downtown Bangkok apartment Wednesday afternoon following a request by US security officials on August 11. [ed. he wasn't exactly hiding out, now was he, since he put his real address on the perfunctory forms one fills out at the Immigration Department. Looks like the procedures already in place worked just fine.]
According to Thai Immigration Police Bureau Commissioner Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsriskul, the American authorities had informed Thailand that Mr. Karr had fled the US to hide, first in Malaysia, and then in Thailand.
As the latest development, a court in Boulder, Colorado issued arrest warrants for the suspect on August 16 on charges of abduction and murder.
The arrested suspect confessed to strangling to death the then six-year-old 'beauty queen', Jon Benet Ramsey, in her home in the US state of Colorado on December 26, 1996.
The suspect said that he initially wanted to kidnap the young girl for ransom, but his demand was not met; so he strangled the kidnapped girl.
Mr. Karr left Penang, Malaysia, and entered Thailand on June 6 this year.
The immigration bureau chief said that he had ordered Mr. Karr's visa to be revoked, and that the man, found not to have committed any wrongdoing in Thailand, would be then extradited for trial in the US.
There have been thousands of foreigners working for local schools in Thailand, particularly international and language schools, a number of whom entered the kingdom as tourists with no work permits as professional teachers, according to Mr. Jakrapob. [ed. work permits are only issued in Bangkok. It is impossible to enter the country with a work permit already in hand.]
--TNA 2006-08-18
Some comments heard 'round the net:
...
First the knee, then the jerk. Then the response.
Here are some possible scenarios:
1. Create more paperwork and bureaucracy, which makes it harder for foreigners to work legally as teachers. End result as market demand stays the same: more foreigners work illegally as teachers.
2. Create insanely high qualifications for foreigners to work in Thailand. End result: Foreigners without insane qualifications leave the country, suddenly market demand goes through the roof without accompanying salary rises ("We will pay 30K baht a month for a Ph.D in Education!"); more foreigners work illegally.
3. Make a song and dance show to save face, then continue business as usual. End result: Normal number of foreigners working illegally.
...
Incidentally, it seems from the articles that it isn't the qualifications of the guy that should have been an issue, but his criminal record. Why isn't there a call for police background checks? Answer: It simply wouldn't work in the "plan at the last minute" world of Thai schools.
[ed. exactly, as usual, the Thai reaction fails to solve the problem while increasing the burden on normal law-abiding citizens]
...
...how will the Thais deal with this situation:
Khun A., an incompetent idiot who happens to be in charge of hiring the farang staff, has put off advertising for one or two teachers until the week just before school starts. Khun A. puts the ad in the paper. Teachers apply. When told they need a background check paper, they check with their embassies and are told it will take (1-2 months, fill in the blank with any reasonable number).
Do you think the Thai schools will:
1) Do the right thing and pay overtime and temporary substitutes (who must also have background checks, remember) until the teacher candidates check out, or
2) Employ them anyway and hope everything works out ok?
Even the process of getting a work permit is already so complicated and so much of a joke that most foreign teachers start out by working illegally- there's actually little choice in the matter.
To imagine that Bangkok could become this rigourous in vetting teacher candidates presumes an entire overhaul of the entire visa and work permit system. Desirable, and not impossible, but extremely improbable.
In fact, the real solution to the problem must lie NOT in putting further restrictions and barriers to people getting real work permits. Most people who have real work permits look pretty good on paper- believe me, it's not easy.
To be honest, I can't blame BCC that much. They were down a teacher (nevermind that it was their own fault the previous one left, apparently) and they had to get someone to fill in. Even in the best circumstances, it takes a month or so usually to get someone legally up to speed. What were they supposed to do? There aren't any work-permitted positions in Bangkok for "temporary school substitute at a moment's notice."
Most of the real problem lies in the foreign teacher population who are working illegally for long stretches of time and completely unregulated (and unprotected). The de facto situation must be addressed realistically: either Thailand must lose a large percentage of its foreign teachers because they don't have minimum qualifications or don't earn the standard set for the permit, or some lower standard must be set and regulated which allows those with fewer academic credentials and earning lower salaries to be regulated and vetted and receive work permits and be legal (and also be protected from the abuse they often experience). However, this takes the power away from the Thai school directors and puts it into the law. I can't see that as something they'd really want to have happen.
...
and while we're at it how about background checks on politicians?
known criminal associations
fraudelent business transactions
evidence of corruption
Lets sweep the country clean of "undesirables"
...
...the fact that every time the prime minister sneezes, there's a new education minister, who has absolute power. It's not like the Japanese system where the bureaucracy maintains stability- everything can go up in the air.
...
Criminals are of every ethnicity in Thailand. In fact the problem of Thai teachers behaving in an unacceptable manner is being covered extensively at the moment in the "Thai Rath" newspaper.
...
One bad apple! Seek references, check references, check authenticity of credentials, plan your recruitment and conduct proper interviews. Maybe accept the fact that better salaries will have to be paid to obtain better people. But would all of this stopped this character? I doubt it.
In this case the chap was qualified, but dangerous.
...
One of the problems here is that every time one foreigner does something bad, there is a round of foreigner bashing by the Thais, and not one Thai actually speaks up to be the voice of reason.
...
But how are foreign teachers in Thailand to be vetted from their country of origin?
To take Britain as an example, there is no way the Criminal
Records Bureau (CRB) would release details of a police record direct to organisations in Thailand. The data on the police records is clearly protected under the Data Protection Act in the UK - and quite rightly so, too.
If you try to obtain it yourself, how would the Thai school know whether the result was not forged? Would they know what a UK police record report looked like?
Even supposing it were possible to obtain a CRB check for a Thai school, who would pay for it (it's about 35 pounds a pop and is only valid for 6 months) and what happens about the delay? When I applied for a CRB check last year via my uni (I was doing a PGCE) I had to wait 2.5 months for the result. If the TES forum is anything to go by, I was pretty lucky - others were waiting 3 or even 4 months.
Would the teacher be allowed to work temporarily before being sacked due to a 'negative' CRB result (this in itself opens a can of worms - who decides if, say, a speeding conviction should disqualify you from school employment) or should he have to wait 3 or 4 months before starting teaching? At that rate there would be no farang teachers for most Thai schools.
...
There hasn't been any suggestion that the guy had a criminal record. He seems to have been caught because he wanted to be caught.
...
Thailand needs teachers to educate the government officials on how not to be stupid, they are children, something I have discovered after living here a while...............they are like children
present some of the senarios that we see govenment take here to a primary school in the west and I really think you will see similar ressults
they just haven't got a clue
...
Background checks wouldn't have kept him from landing the job because he wasn't charged yet. We need to simply accept that sh-t like this happens, and there will never be a way to protect ourselves 100% from coming into contact with bad people.
...
So what would you say if a teacher applied for a job with a B.S. in Education, more than five years of experience teaching, including several years of overseas teaching experience? Those are John Karr's qualifications.
"All teachers in Thailand must have the same career standard, no matter what nationalities they are. We must now be serious about that," noted Mr. Jakrapob, who is also secretary of Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai.
Right, so here comes the knee jerk and additional mounds of paperwork and of course more budget for the responsible authorities. And in the end, people like Mr. Karr will have impecable qualifications by any standard of assessment. Does Mr. Jakrapob think that psychotic paedophiles are incapable of getting a degree and holding a teaching job back home for a few years? Granted, this might weed out some of the backpackers with BS degrees from the University of Khao San Road, but it cannot be expected to prevent people like Mr. Karr from teaching in Thailand.
...
Do any of you guys realise how farang teachers are viewed by Thais?
I worked as a teacher in Thailand for 10 years until I had enough of the bullshit.
No respect given at all by Thai teachers and parents.
If they want to stop getting the farang scum, they had better change their attitude to the farang teacher, and farang in general.
I only know a couple of guys who still teach here after 10years - it really is a shite 'trade' to be in.
Even at university level, the Thais use the pronioun 'man' for the foreign teacher behind their backs (but Ajarn to their face), while many teachers go around thinking that they are well respected in Thailand.
There is also a big resentment from Thai teachers as the farang get 'mega-wages' like 30,000 a month.
Background checks are a waste of time - it's so easy for a criminal to get a new passport and identity.[ed. post 9/11 I'm not so sure about that. However, it always be possible to teach sub rosa in Thailand, as long as you keep your head down and don't make waves.
...
Speaking of salaries, many Thai teachers earn more baht in a year than the average farang teacher, if you deduct the farang teacher's additional expenses, and add in the value of the Thai teacher's pension and other benefits.
...
It is no easy matter for a foreigner to come to Thailand (with, say, an actual bachelor's degree and a TEFL certificate, but no teaching degree) and get legal. You can't get a teaching license or a work permit until you've worked here for MONTHS. I never got either one in YEARS. And, unlike bona fide foreign workers in most countries, the foreign teacher has an almost constant battle trying to remain legal. In order to learn $8,000, after related expenses, per year.
posted by realthailand at
10:54 AM
